Topic: Songwriting Focus
Session Start: Tue Nov 16 21:14:14 1999
<Liane> ok our topic today is "Focus"....
<Liane> my description of focus is...
<Liane> you take the main idea that the song is about... the main point
you are trying to make... boil it down to a phrase if you can and make that
your title....
<Liane> write all your ideas around that phrase... and make it your
hook in your chorus
<Liane> I think that should help keep the whole song stay in focus
pretty much
<Liane> Dale?
<DaleB> hmm..didn't know we were supposed to describe focus
<DaleB> I could give an example
<Liane> don't have to describe it.. just talk about it
<Liane> whatever you want to say
<DaleB> Shine Jesus Shine is a good example of a focused piece
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*** Chosenwarrior is now known as lilangel
<Marty> Welcome To The Christian Songwriters Chat Chosenwarrior!
<DaleB> (:lilangel): we're doing our topic
<DaleB> it focuses on the images of light
<DaleB> things like glowing, reflections, etc.
<DaleB> good example of how to focus
<DaleB> ok...who is going next?
<DaleB> Doc?
<DoctorMusic> I didn't have anything to say yet
<Liane> now that Dale voiced you we can
<DaleB> ok....how about Mark?
<Liane> what do you think are some things that cause us to have trouble
iwth focus?
<DaleB> do you have any comments Mark?
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<DaleB> guess not...
<Liane> whew!
<DaleB> Angel!
<Liane> ok Angel
<lilangel> what?
<DaleB> the topic is focus..discuss ;-)
<Liane> you've been voiced.... what are your thoughts on focus?
<Marty> He's on second.:-)
<lilangel> sorry I don't get it and i am not getting an answer as to
what i am supposed to do....focus on what what are you talking about?
<Liane> when writing a song
<Liane> keeping the song focused
<Marty> how do you keep focus when writing a song?:-)
<lilangel> my focus is whatever i am writing about
<lilangel> i just do it, i never analysed it before
<Liane> yes but how do you personally keep from wandering off topic
<Liane> oh
<Liane> your a natural??
<lilangel> i guess, i never really think about staying on task
<Liane> someone made the point before that if you have trouble thinking
of a good title for your song... then your song needs more direct focus
<Liane> we might as well unmoderate this
<lilangel> the only time i can't write or sing is if something has
ticked me off, i have to get over it first
<DaleB> hmmm...maybe we just need to open this up for general discussion
<Liane> beat you to it!
<Liane> lol
<Liane> anyone have anything to say about this?
<Marty> what is focus? language, imagery, feeling?
<Liane> is everyone here a pro at keep a song focused?
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<Liane> to me focus is if you are writing about a specific topic that
you stay on that topic
<DaleB> Hello LyndraG, welcome to #christian-songwriters
<LyndraG> hiya
<DoctorMusic> I am just starting to get the concept of focus in regard
to a hook...driving the hook home
<Marty> Welcome To The Christian Songwriters Chat LyndraG!
<LyndraG> I'm not really here -- we're busy tonight -- just logging
on so everyone will know I wish I was here.
<Liane> and if your focus is off... your hook will be weak!
<Liane> lol Lyndra!!
<Marty> Laughs Out Loud
<DaleB> focus is perhaps more of problem for the beginner..the desire
to put to many ideas into a song
<Marty> is it depenedent upon the style or type of music? P&W,
CCM? ETC>?
<Liane> is there another type of focus in a song besides the message?
<lilangel> i suppose i take the realistic look at it, if a song becomes
hard to write i don't write it...three days of frustration does not make
a good positive song
<Liane> maybe the point of view? is that focus as well? verb
tenses??
<DoctorMusic> Liane, you are basically talking about focus in terms
of a hook tonight, right?
<Marty> primarily the message but could be a mood setting piece.
<Liane> Marty I dont' think focus depends on the style of music
<DoctorMusic> another kind of focus for me is the focus of completing
the task at hand(the song).
<DaleB> all styles benefit from staying focused
<Marty> true
<DaleB> say one thing in a song, and say it well
<DaleB> and in detail
<Liane> when we are writing we need stay focussed on what we are trying
to say.... so how do we do that? What are some tricks?
<Marty> make a list of phrases/words related to your theme/hook.
<DaleB> good one Marty
<Liane> narrow your whole point down to one phrase and write with that
as the central part of your song... or..
<Marty> try to use imagery for the picture you would paint.
<lilangel> 1. Think about why you want to write the song
<lilangel> 2. Get a topic
<lilangel> 3. Who are you writing it to
<lilangel> 4. what are your resources (bible, life, story..etc)
<lilangel> 5. figure out how fast you want it
<lilangel> 6. pray and ask God to write for you
<lilangel> 7. Write the song
<DoctorMusic> keep asking the question "Is this line, verse, bridge,
chorus, etc. focussed on what I am trying to say?"
<Liane> narrow your whole point into a chorus and then write the verses
from the chorus... the verses could be expounding on different angles from
the chorus
<lilangel> ok, i have a question
<Liane> good points Angel that was excellent I"m going to write those
down!!
<Marty> go for it!
<Liane> go ahead Angel
<lilangel> this is probley just me, but i don't understand why people
have so much trouble writing a song
<DoctorMusic> I used to write more haphazardly before joining CSG.
My basic way of writing has evolved into always starting with the chorus
unless otherwise led.
<Liane> showoff !!! lol
<lilangel> I am not trying to showoff, really
<lilangel> I just don't get it
<Liane> I know I'm just teasing Angel
<Liane> do you think we are trying too hard and that we should just
relax and write?
<lilangel> yes really i do
<DaleB> LOL
<lilangel> here is a trick for you
<DoctorMusic> lil, I have no trouble writing a song. My problem and
challenge is to write a GREAT song
<Liane> that's an interesting point of view Angel
<lilangel> you want a trick this is the only one that has helped me
<lilangel> if you are having trouble writing a song, the problem it
not the song
<lilangel> the problem is usually something that is happening in your
life
<DoctorMusic> it could be though
<Liane> how do you mean Angel?
<Liane> I find I write better when something is happening in my life
<lilangel> either you have not had enough life experience to write
what you are trying to say, or you need to consult the word to get it done
<Liane> when nothing happens I have nothing to say
<lilangel> but that is not what i am talking about liane
<lilangel> i will give you an example
<Liane> ok
<lilangel> when i wrote "Don't take it back"
<lilangel> I tried for 6 months to write a song about leaving your
problems at the alter
<lilangel> the reason why i was having trouble with the song
<lilangel> is because i was still taking back my problems...i was not
ready to tell someone else how to leave them at the alter
<lilangel> i needed to grow in that area
<lilangel> if a song is not working for me
<Liane> OH!!! I get it!! You have to know the topic that
you are writing about... have enough experience to have something to say
about it
<lilangel> i stop and pray "Lord, what is it, why is this not happening"
<Liane> like an egotist trying to write about humility!!
<lilangel> I usually get the same answer, "you don't know the lesson
enough to teach it:"
<Liane> they'd probably get off focus all over the song!!
<lilangel> right
<Liane> very good point Angel
<lilangel> the rule is write what you know right?
<Marty> I agree with you Angel.
<Liane> yes definately
<lilangel> well then why do we try to write what we think everyone
else should know when we don't know it well ourselves?
<Liane> come to think of it I think I've written most of my songs after
having learned some tough lessons
<DaleB> me too Liane
<Marty> we try to write for others expectations, maybe?:-)
<lilangel> it is one thing to consult a rhymning dictionary for one
or two words, but why get frustrated over a whole song?
<Liane> maybe that's why the less time we spend with God the less we
write... cause we're not learning anything new
<lilangel> AMEN!
<DaleB> (:Liane): bingo
* lilangel thinks she's got it
<DaleB> and Amen!
<Liane> of course some people don't mind the frustration or the time
it takes to write a song that way
<lilangel> see, you asked about how we stay focused on songwriting
<lilangel> that is really the wrong question
<lilangel> the question should be who are we focused on?
<DoctorMusic> quick survey....how many here spend an average of a half
hour a day in the study and/or reading of God's word?
<DoctorMusic> or more
<lilangel> ourselves? others? or the one we should be writing to...God?
<Liane> actually the question is still keeping our focus once we have
started a song
<DaleB> depends on the day
<DoctorMusic> average
<DaleB> lately I've been below average
<Liane> me too
<DoctorMusic> me too
<lilangel> I can't say that I do a half hour of studying, most days
i fall asleep reading the word, but I spend alot of time in prayer
<lilangel> I have to at work or I would never survive
<DoctorMusic> half hour is nothing if you really think about it
<Liane> true
<DaleB> I agree
<Liane> when I do get into the word I can't stop but it's not very
often
<DoctorMusic> Oh Father, I'm so sorry. I will make more time for you
<Liane> I pray more often but they are short prayers
<Liane> anyway let's 'focus' on the topic at hand
<DaleB> LOL
<Liane> anyone see the song I posted today?
<Liane> how about the focus on that song?
<DoctorMusic> not yet
<lilangel> no
<Liane> "Help is on the Way"
<Liane> it's a blues song
<Liane> 12 bar blues
<DaleB> (:Liane): I probably deleted it in a mad attempt to catch up
on my mail
<Liane> I think I have focus problems in that song because there were
so many things I wanted to say
<Liane> we need to pick one thing
<lilangel> that is what i was going to say
* lilangel is sorry she is so argumentative tonight, it was not intentional
<Liane> that's ok Angel
* DaleB shines up Angel's halo
<lilangel> i just got very dissappointed tonight and i took it out
on all of you
<Liane> lol
<Liane> maybe you should re focus your feelings on the individual at
fault? :-P
<Liane> :)?
<DaleB> btw...I have not yet started packing
<lilangel> there is not a focus, it is just what happened
<Liane> oh ok
<DaleB> so....
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<DaleB> Hello AXEMAN, welcome to #christian-songwriters
<AXEMAN> hi
<Marty> Hi Ken.
<AXEMAN> hi
<DoctorMusic> Cool lil
<lilangel> ok...so how does this relate to focus...well if I focus
on God, I will get a really good song out of this
<Liane> that's not the type of focus I meant but :)
<lilangel> lol
<lilangel> you can't blame me for trying
<AXEMAN> are we still topicing?
<DoctorMusic> Let me ask a question about hooks and focus.....
<lilangel> sort of ken
<AXEMAN> k
* DaleB has sat through a lot of sermons, lectures and movies
<Marty> go ahead Doc
<DoctorMusic> What if I were to write a song entitled "Heaven's Most
Wanted Man"
<lilangel> whoa, that is a good hook and topic
<DoctorMusic> the focus would be on how much God loved me and wanted
me
<lilangel> you could do that two ways doc
<DoctorMusic> but what if I approached it from an "outlaw" perspective
<Liane> cool idea Doc
<DoctorMusic> I was running from the law, you arrested my spirit, etc.
<Liane> I like the how much God loves you idea tied in with that particular
title
<lilangel> i like it doc...go for it
<lilangel> kind of like that song "you can't keep a good man down"
<DoctorMusic> does the focus get lost if I come from an outlaw perspective
and twist it around at the chorus or does it magnify the focus?
<lilangel> what are you twisting it to?
<DaleB> well..you're still coming at the hook from different angles...which
I think is good
<AXEMAN> interesting twists are interesting
<DoctorMusic> well, the verses would be about a "criminal" but at the
bridge and chorus it turns out it's a sinner
<DaleB> (:AXEMAN): duh!
<DoctorMusic> who was arrested in his spirit?
<DoctorMusic> just a rough idea
<AXEMAN> it is just a large metaphor
<DoctorMusic> anyone get what i'm going after?
<AXEMAN> I like it
<lilangel> ok, or the parallel of how Jesus was the outlaw..and
ended up being the savior
<DaleB> (:DoctorMusic): yes...I think it's fine
<DaleB> (:lilangel): I like your idea too!!!
<lilangel> thanks
<AXEMAN> I don't think that you would be losing focus by using metaphor
<lilangel> not at all doc, i can't wait to see it
<DoctorMusic> it's on my list
<DoctorMusic> thanks for the encouragement
<Liane> question
<lilangel> i think it would be awesome doc
<DaleB> go!
<AXEMAN> sorry I'm typing one handed
<DaleB> (:AXEMAN): why?
<Liane> if you start out talking to 'you' and then end up talking 'about
Him' is that a change in focus?
<AXEMAN> ice cream bar
<DoctorMusic> one armed bandit? Are you wanted?
<DaleB> LOL
<DoctorMusic> how do you talk to you?
<lilangel> not if you stay on task liane
<DaleB> Liane talks to herself
<Liane> like 'help is on the way to "you" '
<DoctorMusic> oh
<AXEMAN> (DoctorMusic): ?
<DoctorMusic> ?
<Liane> but then in another verse you suddenly say 'He is comin back
for us'
* lilangel talks to herself too, most days nobody else listens
<lilangel> lol
<Liane> when it was the Lords words saying 'help is on the way to you'
<DoctorMusic> I think it does break focus a bit
<Liane> would you call that a change in focus or just inconsistent
persons?
<DoctorMusic> maybe both
<DaleB> brb
<DoctorMusic> just say He is coming back for you
<AXEMAN> Ok left hand free
<Liane> oh!! or I am comin back for you!!!
<Liane> thanks!!
<DoctorMusic> welcome
<Liane> I have officially been doctored!!
<lilangel> i have changed tense from the first verse, in the first
person, to second verse second person but never in the same verse
<Liane> I didn't do it in the same verse in this case
<DoctorMusic> did you guys ever hear justmark's songs?
<Liane> but just wondered
* DaleB IS back
<lilangel> kind of "I learned this, you can too" type of thing
<Liane> everybody duck!! Dale is back
<lilangel> i read them doc
<Liane> yeah... that's what I was trying to do Angel
<AXEMAN> quack
<DoctorMusic> quack, quack.....that's the ducking I'm gonna do tonight
<Liane> vs 1 talks about me struggling.... ends off by hearing Him
say to me.... then chorus is what He said
<DoctorMusic> i just heard one of his songs tonight....very good stuff
<Liane> vs 2 is thanking Him for helping
<DoctorMusic> fresh
<Liane> vs 3 is His 2nd coming
<Liane> when the struggle will end
<Liane> anyone having any concluding thoughts on focus??
* DaleB is too tired to focus
<DoctorMusic> focus is good
<DoctorMusic> lol
<Liane> this has been the most unfocussed discussion!! LOLOL
<DaleB> I'm for it
* lilangel really said everything she wanted to say about it
* lilangel refers to 1. through 7.
<lilangel> lol
<Marty> focus that is good is better?:-)
<AXEMAN> The way I write I don't really have much problem with focus
<Liane> how so Ken?
<AXEMAN> I am basically a story teller
<AXEMAN> I write with a definate story in mind
<Liane> you know what you want to say and that helps you focus?
<AXEMAN> yes
<AXEMAN> I think the problem of focus comes when you come up with a
great hook
<AXEMAN> but don't have the big picture of what you're wanting to say
<DoctorMusic> i think if we try to write as we would speak, our focus
will stay where it should be
<DoctorMusic> how so Ken?
<AXEMAN> so the main idea (focus) just drifts around
<DoctorMusic> gotcha
<DoctorMusic> ok
<Liane> what if we normally don't focus well as we speak? I'm
not focussed when I speak and I even interrupt myself many times! lol
<AXEMAN> I think that before we write we need to have something worth
writing about
<lilangel> I suppose i figure if i can't teach it to someone else,
i can't write about it
<lilangel> otherwise i don't know how to say it
<Liane> I agree Angel I am definately the same way
<lilangel> but to teach it i have to do it
<lilangel> otherwise the song is a lie
<AXEMAN> I don't like the idea of writing just to write,
I know a lot of poeple do it and many of them very good writers
<Liane> anyway, when I've learned something I can't wait to tell someone
so writing a song about it is a great release
<AXEMAN> but I don't think that you can write a great song without
first having a great idea
<lilangel> i think in two years of being on the list i have only put
up maybe 3 or 4 songs
<lilangel> i have only written maybe 10 or 15
<DoctorMusic> why lil?
<lilangel> not that i have not been in a writing mood, just that i
have been learning so that i can write...i am always very sure of what i
am writing about before i do it
<lilangel> i have to be clear on the topic of the song
* AXEMAN too
<lilangel> every song has a purpose
<lilangel> every purpose has an audience
<lilangel> find both and write about it
<Liane> sometimes I just wanna have fun
<AXEMAN> 30 - 40 songs is all I've writen in 15 years
<LyndraG> Dale: I know you're about done for, but can you still stick
around to answer my questions in a little while? We've been too busy
for me to ask 'em online.
<DoctorMusic> every porpoise has a snout
<lilangel> so liane your purpose is to have fun with it
<DaleB> (:DoctorMusic): LOL
<DoctorMusic> Doc needs to go to bed soon
<AXEMAN> Be Right Back coffee anyone?
<Marty> I still like that one that couldn't or shouldn't be done.:-)
<Marty> remember that Angel?:-)
<lilangel> sorry, i have taught too much on praise and worship and
songwriting...lol
<Liane> but the things I am so thankful for having learned I have a
strong desire to help others in those same areas too
<lilangel> yes i remember
<DaleB> fill us all in
<lilangel> it was a good poem but still melody challenged somewhat
<lilangel> Carpenters Tools
<Liane> I'm so easily discouraged that I really appreciate being encouraged
and can't wait to encourage someone else
<Marty> the words still linger in my minds' eye.:-)
<lilangel> from the perspective of the man who made the nails and hammer,
that helped put Jesus on the cross...wondering if he really knew what they
would be used for
<lilangel> would he still have done it
<AXEMAN> back
<DaleB> ahh
<DoctorMusic> Liane, do you collaborate?
<lilangel> when you speak the words, it sounds great, when you put
it to music it still lacks something...but the message is clear
<Liane> not often why?
<Marty> great words, I thought, Angel.:-)
<Liane> ( Doc ): not often why?
<DoctorMusic> Liane, seems to me a writing partner could encourage
you and it is a great idea for getting more exposure as a writer
<lilangel> thanks marty, i have to work on it
<AXEMAN> The thing that is probably missing is a hook
<Liane> I wrote the melody to one of Jason's songs... Dale wrote a
different melody to the same song so it had two versions
<AXEMAN> that is one of the hardest things to do when working with
a poem
<Liane> I can't remember any others
<lilangel> no it is just the metering, it is one of those songs/poems
that would loose something if you tried to meter it to a melody
<AXEMAN> ahhh
<DoctorMusic> make it into a rap then
<Liane> hey good idea
<Marty> I don't know, the melody I did was what came to mind when I
first read it, not great but a story of sorts.:-)
<DoctorMusic> lol
<lilangel> marty, you can have it if you want, i will probley never
record it
Session Close: Tue Nov 16 22:36:17 1999